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I
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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gri Borno
province in Nigeria is a far off land of
which we know little not least because
what happens there is of virtually no
importance to the Western media and the
political class it echoes in the same
week that 17 people died in Terrorist
outrages in Paris 2,000 people died in
another the terrorist outrage in Borno
no hashtags for them indeed virtually no
coverage of any kind at all last year
there was a brief flurry of concern
about the victims of Boh Haram and for a
couple of weeks everyone from Michelle
Obama in the White House to sahayak on
Hollywood's red carpet held up this
Placer showing # bring back our girls
but it didn't last long the Caravan
moved on and the
276 girls never came back Bo Haram
literally books are forbidden is a
Savage group of throat Cutters who
whilst drowning every Islamic principle
in blood have recently declared their
allegiance to the so-called cff hidden
away in the Iraqi desert the Nigerian
State seems incapable of defeating them
so much so that the president the
inaptly named good luck Jonathan managed
to make a statement denouncing events in
Paris and completely failing to mention
the thousand slaughtered in his own
country in the same week helping us to
make sense of it all is in Del ADI of
the London School of Oriental and
African studies welcome to the Sputnik
can we begin by trying to place boo
Haram on some kind of spectrum who are
they what are they are they islamists
are they terrorists are they
both I think they could be defined as
being both although they would consider
themselves obviously to be something
different they if you ask them to Define
themselves they'd probably say they are
doing the work of God but to those who
are familiar and who've been um targets
of their attacks and who felt felt their
Vengeance they would say otherwise I I
personally would say that there are
islamist terrorists who would like to
carve out their own part of of um
northern Nigeria in or in order to make
it um an Islamic caliphate well they're
carving it out in in blood aren't they
in sectarian uh blood they are singling
out uh Christian people and massacring
them destroying places of Warship uh
neither of which is remotely uh
permitted uh by the Islamic religion
indeed so is there no cleric in Nigeria
to be found to make a fatwa
uh to excommunicate these people or are
people accepting that they are acting in
the name of Islam I think you'll find
that most people do not accept that they
are acting on behalf of mus of Muslims
or in in the in the name of true Islam
um I know of a number of Islamic clerics
in Northern Nigeria who have come out at
the risk of their own lives and the
safety of their families to say that
what the sect is doing that says book
is not Islamic at all and is not allowed
in any of the the the Islamic scriptures
at all and many of them have either been
killed or been targeted for
assassination only just um recently last
um in the middle of last year during the
fasting period uh a popular cleric in
Northern Nigeria shika deu Boi who spoke
out numerous occasions against the the
these bloodthirsty people was attacked
and many of the PE of the people who had
gathered to listen to his um Ramadan tap
um were killed actually so it's it's a
case where bharam have alienated
themselves from the communities in which
they began and have alienated
all rational Nigerians and I I think
you'll find even within their own ranks
from what I've been told their members
who have become
disenchanted and disillusioned with what
whatever it is that their their their
aims and and objectives are and would
like to drop um their weapons if if they
could sa safely do so and if perhaps the
government reaches out to them to to to
try to are they a local stroke National
problem or are they part of an
international they've recently uh
declared uh that Borno at least will be
a part of the uh Islamic State the
caliphate uh declared by a
self-appointed individual in mosul in
Iraq Iraq is a long way from Nigeria how
credible is that claim that they are a
part of a an
international well I think in terms of
um ideological inspiration you could see
that they are part of a larger Global
Network of um islamist terrorism but I
don't quite think that they've reached
that level yet where we could
see a collaboration between them and um
and uh and Isis but I I I do think that
they began initially as a local problem
which led to them being ignored
by by the current regime of good luck
Jonathan and that that gave them the
opportunity to blossom into something
larger and we what we see today is the
effect of the not being contained and
curtailed by the government allowing
them to mushroom into what could
potentially become um um a transnational
problem because as it as it stands at
the moment they've um branched out
beyond the borders of Nigeria to
neighboring states like Cameroon and um
even some of some of their members are
are reported to be hiding out in the
Republic of Chad as well so I I think
it's a problem that could have um
potential ramifications for neighboring
countries I think you mentioned good
luck Jonathan never could a man have
been less aptly named he managed not
just to ignore them uh but to do so at
the very time he was condemning far far
smaller outrages in Paris what's that
about I think if anything it's it just
reflects the value of the average
Nigerian life to Good Luck Jonathan's um
um government especially the lives of
impoverished Nigerians in parts of the
country where no one really cares for
for them or what they they they do or
what or what happens to them and I think
that's sort of what we are seeing um
after it I mean we're only just getting
to know now about the the approximately
2,000 who died in the in in the fishing
town of Bara but
apparently the the news only began
filtering out of Barger a week after the
attack actually took place and it tells
you a lot about um not just the
government but also how the military the
Nigerian military is um reacting to this
um um Scourge well you mentioned the
Nigerian military which have in the past
had uh Frank fearsome
reputation uh and their military prowess
is much used by the African Union and
peacekeeping operations by the United
Nations how come they're performing so
pitifully against this gang it's quite
um interesting to to see to to notice
the um decline in in the the the the
military
prowess as it were of the Nigerian um
army I mean close to a decade ago
Nigeria used to to be considered um the
the the big brother to all the other
African nations when there was crisis in
Liberia SI Leon the Congo Nigeria was
always the first to send out troops
Nigeria always contributed the um the
the the the highest amount of manpower
to join um pisin forces on the continent
but as it stands now our
military does not seem to have the the
ability to to put a lid on what's going
on in north in North Eastern Nigeria
allowing buku Haram to continue to take
over more towns and potentially cities
if they are not stopped I read that last
year 27 people per day died to Boh Haram
related violence that accumulated to
almost 10,000 last year how does this
phenomenon of the Boh Haram terrorist
group how does this take a how does this
play in the coming presidential
election I I was reading the one of the
local newspapers a few days ago and I I
read something about there being a
possibility of people in the ravaged the
the affected towns being um
disenfranchised if the the attacks
continue and I'm not quite sure if it's
it's some perhaps a political stratagy
by the the incumbent government to
perhaps disenfranchise those um the
people in those areas because perhaps
the president knows that he cannot count
on them delivering votes in his favor at
the polls or if it actually comes from
um an out a genuinely altruistic
position whereby the president genuinely
cares enough for those people and wants
to guarantee their safety but I I I do
suspect that the attacks will play a
role in how um the elections do turn out
eventually he going to win these
elections how's this all going to
end that's that's a that's that's diff
that's a difficult question to answer
but at the
moment the majority of the people I've
I've engaged in informal discussions
with onate
dation do not feel that if this present
regime is allowed to carry on asset is
that there's going to be any hope for
Nigerians collectively and I think it's
on I mean with the the the way Nigerian
elections are known for going it's it's
likely that there might be post-election
violence or there might be higher than
usual um rate of rigging but I I I I'm
not quite sure that this regime is going
to be allowed to carry on especially
because the president is considered to
have failed on so many levels in terms
of um delivering um the the dividends of
of of democracy to the the Nigerian
citizen is's considered to filled in
terms of um guaranteeing the the safety
of Nigerians collectively he's
considered to filled and in terms of all
the promises that all all the the things
the promises that he made before the
beginning of his first term he is
considered to not have delivered on any
of them except on paper and I think that
will play a large role in how people
decide to vote at the polls in February
well it must be questionable well
whether Nigeria is going to continue as
a single State uh on the basis of what's
happening in the north once you lose
control of a territory uh you've
effectively broken up as a country and
given the price Nigeria has already paid
in the past half century uh on that
front that would be a disaster indeed
thanks very much for coming thank on
board the Sputnik coming up after the
break down Mexico way they're killing
the children find out who's doing what
to whom and why in the very center of
the
world welcome back to Sputnik the world
has become in to massacres in Mexico
where people are murdered in their
hundreds usually connected to the Raging
drug traffic across the country's border
with the United States where there's a
voracious hunger for Junk of every kind
four months ago on September 26 43
students from the rural College on their
way to a protest in the town of igala
were kidnapped murdered and buried in
Shallow Graves the local mayor Jose Luis
abara Velasquez and his wife Maria De
Los Angeles pin Villa are claimed to
have masterminded the abduction and
killing the events caused social unrest
Nationwide protests International
condemnation and is arguably the biggest
Poli iCal and security Scandal the
Mexican presidency has ever faced
Mexicans in their great majority are
finally saying enough is enough when it
comes to the rotten corrupt political
class which has misruled the country for
decades the London Mexico solidarity
group is active in Britain and I'm glad
they join us now on board the Sputnik
cloudo Garcia erenel and Denise Drake
welcome to the Sputnik I I want to ask a
general question first where does the
criminal Class end and the political
class begin in Mexico or are they one
and the same and well I think that is
the question that most Mexicans are
trying to answer now
um there is not a clear line for the
general public between criminal
organizations and the Mexican
Government um and the aapa case proves
that the drug cartels and the Mexican
Government are simply implicated in
every single at every single level of
the government both both these people
the major and and his wife are actively
H collaborating with ro cartels and to
the date they haven't been um convicted
for for the aot sinpa case they have
been convicted for some other reasons
but not because of of that
um at the same time um they have been
protected by the Mexican
Government at least why why did the
Mexican Government yes at least six
months ago the Mexican Government knew
that avara was a part of a drug cartel
organization and they didn't do anything
to stop it on the other hand recently um
it was released by Hernandez a famous
journalist in Mexico that the military
and the federal police were tracking
down the the students with a C4 uh
Communication System um which means that
you
know the federal government the Army the
federal police the Municipal Police the
major all the levels of the government
are involved in this crime and that it
could have been avoided what danger were
these students to these
criminals um that is a question I cannot
answer I think
um this this is these students are
politically active but it is Unthinkable
that in the 21st century ER this kind of
political crimes are still been going on
so I think I think we don't have an
answer yet to that yeah I mean it's like
something from the from the 1970s 1980s
when the death squads were roaming
around many parts of Latin America the
idea that they could get away with a
crime like this is what uh baffles me
Denise well and just to mention about
the students in the 70s and the 60s um
the students were raising funds to go to
a protest in Mexico City which was to
commemorate the October 2nd 1968
Massacre of students coincided with the
with the uh Olympics the Olympic Games
when huge numbers of students were were
gone down but in those days uh these
kind of things were possible for regimes
they got away with it five decades later
the same political system is still in
place but uh as clao says in the 21st
century it's impossible to imagine that
such a story will not Traverse the world
I'm presuming uh that it's a big issue
in Latin
America it is a really big issue um
unlike some other Latin American
countries Mexico has not had Trials of
justice and say like in Guatemala and um
where the the society is able to convict
uh the military or government the
government in this kind of crimes well
just to add these kind of crimes will
continue to occur until the people rise
up and say we've had enough and that's
exactly what the zapatistas are doing in
chapas and the students that were
disappeared um were born out of that
same tradition the school um aot NAA was
one of the rural schools that was
established after the Mexican Revolution
and it was established to help um small
farmers and their families and their
children to learn to read to write to to
um better Farm or to have the op or to
pursue opportunities in the city and
that is what is so threatening is people
making decisions about their own lives
and demanding autonomy you mentioned the
chapas a couple of times tell us enl
light us a bit about it um well Chiapas
and for people who don't know um in
Chiapas there is a movement called the
zapatistas and the zapatistas broke onto
the world stage onto public um light in
1994 on the dawn of NAFTA when the US in
Mexico and Canada signed that Free Trade
Agreement um on Mid on midnight January
1st 10,000 zapatista soldiers flooded
out of the the mountains the Canyons the
jungles of chapus and took over 7
different towns and they said yeah Basta
enough is enough they wore um uh they
wore ski masks or they had bandanas
kerchiefs across their their face and
they said we are the voiceless We Are
The Faceless you haven't heard us for
500 years but that is over because this
is not going to happen uh we are re
we've been resisting since the Europeans
came um 500 years ago you haven't killed
us yet we're still here and we want out
of this system
that NAFTA and free trade is not going
to bring Mexico into the first world
first world haaha was one of their
slogans so they're all indigenous mostly
they they are they are people of Mayan
descent there are people um of mixed
Heritage who have chosen to join them
but by and large it's an indigenous
movement they are fighting for the lands
and the territories that belong to their
ancestors for millennium and how is the
government responding to them oh with
repression and um crackdowns but they
will just keep fighting I mean their
strength is they never surrender they
will not be co-opted and they never give
up but it hasn't spread uh across Mexico
and it couldn't because it uh it is
largely based uh in chapas and amongst
uh indigenous people uh and it's uh it's
brand of politics it's not uh at this
point in time at least going to uh rally
the support of the great majority of
Mexicans but the great majority of
Mexicans may be beginning to turn
against the political system nonetheless
is that accurate I think that's accurate
um I would like to say that the saptist
are an inspiration for many groups in
resistance in Mexico um many times
because they are dealing with
environmental activism so um for
instance in in PU
there are hundreds of political
detainees who have been trying to you
know fight against Mega projects of the
government for the zapatistas the
political struggle is not about a
realignment of the actors it's a
horizontal vision and it is about um and
it's not about the model spreading
either the zapatistas are happy to share
what they've accomplished and they
invite people in because that's the only
way you're going to learn about that is
to go visit them themselves
and they they share stories um just here
at the end of the year we had the
worldwide Festival of rebellions and
resistances against um capitalism and
what the zapatistas want to do is to
share ideas and everybody to localize
their own struggle that we may have some
underlying common values and some
underlying um other things that bring us
together but everything has to be
localized and figured out by people
themselves you can't photocopy a
revolution
what's gone wrong uh in Mexico you
mentioned the Mexican Revolution a very
inspirational uh Revolution Mexico for a
long time uh in geopolitics played a
progressive role it seems to me as a um
quite a distance Observer uh that that
Mexico has gone very badly wrong in
recent years well yes I think the
majority of the people are facing
dispossession um a low paid salary um if
you look at the model that the Mexican
Government is advertising well it's h
basically one form of slavery where you
get paid nothing and you work for hours
and hours a day for for a CEO or
something like that um uh on the other
hand the the de democracy in Mexico is
is at bias and I think the saptist are
an inspiration for many Mexicans in in
that regards as well in the sense that
there is not a single party that
Mexicans can trust so the question now
is if that's true in many countries
including this one I I guess that I
guess that's right and but it the
question is different once the
politicians start kidnapping students
sure um so I think um now people are
starting to recognize why there was a
campaign like the lra
camp lra Camp was a campaign asking
people not to vote now nowadays you have
the activist Kier cilia asking exactly
the same question do not vote because H
giving your vote to a political party is
basically supporting a criminal
organization what a Pity well look the
best of luck to the London Mexico
solidarity group if there's anything
that we can do to help you we're happy
to do so thanks for coming on the
sputnic and now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portal of
social media what's rattling gri well
whatever happened to the 276 girls that
were kidnapped by Boko Haram Mark Desi
answers it backfired the moment that
Michelle Obama tweeted that bring back
our girl selfie and then it got rocked
swept along with the mh1 17 preliminary
report no I I think that the good luck
Jonathan mishandled it badly uh he could
either have fought or negotiated in the
end he Deni
on Mexico we've got our very own Stacy
from the Kaiser report in Mexico at the
moment and she tweets that I am
currently Mexico and every single local
I've asked says the US Finance drug war
needs to end as it just kills too many
Mexico today is like the USA in the 20s
when prohibition led to Violent Mafia
gangs and corrupt politicians well if
that's what our stacy says and she's in
Mexico who am I to argue well that's all
that we have for this week
which alas means that's the end of the
show you can stay in touch with us on
Twitter at rtor Sputnik and on Facebook
you can like us on Sputnik on Russia
today it's goodbye from me gri and from
me George Galloway it's been marvelous
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